Joy: Right. Cai acusaittle t before answer your question? Is there such a thing as poverty-inducing music? Do you really believe that the music you listen to is going to determine your lifestyle?

Bill: No. It's the message of the music. The message of the music when I was a kid was motown, it was love songs, it was snappy melodies. And it had nothing to do with whether you were going to be poor or rich. The music hashanged now, where by the lyrics basically put forth a point of view that I believe is destructive.

Joy: I'm not defending his lyrics. But I think you might be a little hard-pressed to defend some of the rolling stones lyrics, some of elvis' lawyerics even some of motown's lawyerics.

Bill: Nothing on the scale of this stuff, nothing.

Joy: I don't disagree with you completely. Although "louie louie" was banned.

Joy: That's immature stuff.

Joy: Every jentration tried to find something to drive the older generation nuts. He achieved that. Why is the media not taking off on that, they used to. But he's enormously successful which doesn't mean they shouldn't but you know and I know success breeds success.

Bill: You're saying basically that the media are a bunch of wimps and once somebody becomes successful, they're going to put the stamp of approval on because money is all that matters?

Joy: Yes, but this isn't a new theory. With we can look at a whole bunch of people and say are these people successful or media creations and we can agree with a few exceptions, the media determines who will be famous. That has nothing to do with having talent. Having said that, did you see "8 mile?"

Bill: I did N. I will not give him my $10.

Joy: Part of what I do, I review movies. I thought the movie stunk. However, he is mesmerizing.

Joy: All that means is he has a talent.

Bill: No one is saying the man isn't talented.

Joy: What is your specific concern then

Bill: My specific concern is this, let's go back to the statement that every generation tries to wrangle their parents or whatever. Now, that's like comparing smoking on the bus 20 years ago to having oral sex on the bus, which is what they did last month in massachusetts, okay. There's a matter of degree. We have reached --

Joy: Which is worse?

Bill: Which is worse? You're the doctor. We reached critical mass in this country. We're now we hav influences like eminem, rappers, things like that, that are so anti-social, and so harmful to people without strong parents, to people who are weak characters, to people who are confused about life, that they can actually drive these people into committing anti-social acts which will then make sure that they're poor forever. Ly give you an example. Tattoos -- tattoos, you see kids all over the place with tattoos. You go into ibm, wanting a job with a tattoo on your neck, you're not getting that job. That's just a small example of how this kind of behavior can limit you in an economic way.

Joy: First of all, there are people in my health club who work for ibm who have tattoos.

Bill: Not on their neck or their hands, no way.

Joy: First of all, on their .

Bill: Can't see it.You have a ring nose, an eye pierce, you're not going to be hired by straight society, period, that's it.

Joy: You might be hired at apple, which may be hiring -- or microsoft.

Bill: Doctor, you know what I'm talking about here.

Joy: I think you're exaggerating the point. You can give me the glare and it won't work. Let's go back to the issue somehow -- first of all, I would would argue not having parents will end you up in jail, I don't think that's necessarily true

Bill: The risk factor is way higher and you know it.

Joy: Let me tell you one thing. I talked with an 11-year-old by eminem. I was curious. I knew I was coming on the show. I grabbed an 11-year-old, not mine, I said, why do you like eminem? Little girl said, I think he's cool because he came from a tough background. He stays involves with his 3-year-old daughter. At one point he was a bad guy. Now he's a good guy. Bill, that's your point.
Bill: Here's my point. I talked to fifth grade teachers where this 11-year-old girl goes to school and the fifth grade teachers say the 11-year-old boys are calling 11-year-old girls pitches and hos. Why do you think they're doing this? Because they lis to no. They're doing it because they listen to this guy. That kind fd behavior will put them back forever.

Joy: I'm not sure sticks and stones break the bones. Do I agree with the lyrics? No. Bill, you and I spent 10 minutes talking about him, which in fact will make him more famous.